Tailing Loops and the 180º Rule


Of all the issues traditionally listed as causes of tailing loops that one above is astonishing. And even more astonishing taking into account that you can simply rig your rod and try its validity for yourself.

Clue:

A tailing loop is a transverse wave traveling along the fly line, generated by a sudden down-up motion of the rod tip during the casting stroke.

Edit:

Copy&Paste from Tim’s comment:

But Aitor I would have to argue that in that video you are not breaking the 180 rule as you are allowing the line to fall enough to then afford an upward trajectory…

This is a screenshot from the video above showing the position of the line just after the start of the forward cast:

The forward casting stroke has just started

For more insights into tailing loops: https://onemorelastcast.net/2019/05/03/no-tailing-loop-again/

https://onemorelastcast.net/tag/tailing-loop/

10 comments on “Tailing Loops and the 180º Rule

  1. paracaddis says:

    But Aitor I would have to argue that in that video you are not breaking the 180 rule as you are allowing the line to fall enough to then afford an upward trajectory, 180 degrees to the position of the line . ?

    Like

    • Aitor says:

      I wait for the loop to unroll not for the line to fall. I can’t attach a picture here but go frame by frame and see how the forward stroke starts with the line at a 45º angle from the ground.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Steve Peach says:

    Aitor, great post. It seems to me that this is one of those things that you can compensate for in your cast to some extent, this is why the steeple cast is possible. However with a longer cast, it falls apart and you end up casting a tailing loop. There are many occasions where I do this out on the river, when you are wading up to your knees or so, and trying to keep your back cast above the level of the bank and grass/shrubs. With a short line it is doable. But try it with a longer line, and without letting your back cast drop so that you don’t catch obstacles behind you, and it rapidly becomes much more difficult to avoid tailing loops in my experience. Are you able to make a long cast with an elevated back cast?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Aitor says:

      Hi Steve,
      When I shot that video I had in mind the steeple cast. A high backcast followed by a horizontal forward cast to present the fly,has traditionally been related with tailing loops due to the violation of the 180º principle.
      In the latest years our knowledge of the tailing loop phenomenon has increased a lot; as a result some of the old views have been debunked. A tailing loop is the result of a bad application of force by the angler. As proved by my video, a high fc/high bc doesn’t result in a tailing loop at all, provided that you accelerate properly.
      However, as you say, a longer cast with the same conditions could pose problems. But not of tailing loops but of dangling end. The difference is explained here:
      https://onemorelastcast.net/2019/03/26/wavy-shapes-and-wavy-shapes/

      Thanks for stopping by!

      Like

      • Steve Peach says:

        Thanks Aitor!

        This is interesting. There is no doubt that it is quite a complex system of forces at play on the fly line. In your example cast above, there is a marked curve in the line on the backcast that seems to propagate down the line as the forward cast stroke accelerates the line forward. I wonder if that curve operates a bit like a hinge, with the part of the line closest to the rod tip accelerating forward and up in the direction of the cast, while the tip of the line away from the rod is accelerating down due to the force of gravity. Obviously the force of the forward cast is much greater than the gravity on the rear part of the line, but that downward inertia from the line falling must still have some kind of effect on the shape of the loop going forwards? The shape of the loop would be impacted by the ratio of those 2 inertias operating in different directions wouldn’t it? I have found that it is easier to use an elevated backcast with a dry fly than a weighted nymph, which I guess adds it’s own inertia to the already complex equation…..

        As for longer casts being more difficult, perhaps it has something to do with the position of the curved hinge point being closer to the rod tip. Therefore, a longer amount of line behind that hinge has more mass and inertia compared to the part forward of the hinge which is launching the forward cast…..

        Another interesting observation looking at your video again – if you think of the curve in the line (the hinge) propagating down the line to the tip during your forward cast, it seems that you have just enough time in your forward stroke for that to reach the tip of the line. With a longer line out, the forward stroke would not be long enough to propagate the hinge all the way down to the end of the fly line. Does that make sense?

        Food for thought! 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

      • Aitor says:

        “Obviously the force of the forward cast is much greater than the gravity on the rear part of the line, but that downward inertia from the line falling must still have some kind of effect on the shape of the loop going forwards? The shape of the loop would be impacted by the ratio of those 2 inertias operating in different directions wouldn’t it?”

        Yes, exactly. If the momentum of the downward moving part of the line is big enough what you get is a dangling end, as illustrated in the link I provided above.

        Like

  3. Aitor says:

    Hi Steve,
    “In your example cast above, there is a marked curve in the line on the backcast that seems to propagate down the line as the forward cast stroke accelerates the line forward. I wonder if that curve operates a bit like a hinge, with the part of the line closest to the rod tip accelerating forward and up in the direction of the cast, while the tip of the line away from the rod is accelerating down due to the force of gravity.”

    Yes, the tip of the ine is accelerated downward due to gravity, and the casting stroke also!

    Like

  4. Aitor says:

    “Another interesting observation looking at your video again – if you think of the curve in the line (the hinge) propagating down the line to the tip during your forward cast, it seems that you have just enough time in your forward stroke for that to reach the tip of the line. With a longer line out, the forward stroke would not be long enough to propagate the hinge all the way down to the end of the fly line. Does that make sense?”

    It does make all the sense!
    Look again at this entry:
    https://onemorelastcast.net/2019/03/26/wavy-shapes-and-wavy-shapes/

    When the cast is longer you get a dangling end. The reason for that dog leg remaining in the line instead of dissolving itself is the very low tension in the line end.

    Thanks for your insightful comments!

    Like

  5. Steve Peach says:

    Thanks Aitor! I am beginning to understand I think! 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

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